Impact Investing | Moving Capital with Intention

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Okay. So, today I'm with

Alli Marchand. Did I say your last name right? You did. Good job. Marchand.

Marchand. Is that French? It is French. Wow. You're French.

My dad's family from generations and generations ago settled in like Louisiana, Mississippi, you know, the

French part of the US. So, Oh, French descendants. Okay. Okay. Um, so I'm with Ali. And

Ali, I wanted I was hoping you could first kind of describe what you do with Bespoke because

like your official title is a senior client relationship manager. So, you're super forward or client facing and you

work really closely with our clients. Um, but you're also known in on the team

as really uh a big voice surrounding impact investing.

So, can you kind of explain that because I mean when I wanted to introduce you I was like Ali's our impact investing

specialist but that's not your title. So, can you kind of break that down a little? Yeah, I mean technically like you said

my day-to-day is working with clients and helping them with whatever they need to do. And usually that looks like

onboarding help um helping with getting the banking set up, help implementing

the strategies or the structures that they that we've planned for them and then help monitoring ongoing activities.

But on the other side, yeah, I mean I have been in the adjacent to the

sustainable investing world for almost a decade now and I've seen it grow. I've

seen it turn. I've seen it step backward and I um feel like it's an exciting

space to be in because I think it's very quickly evolving and we're getting new

kind of clarity on what is possible and what is not possible. So, I don't know

if I would call myself the expert, but I it is definitely a big interest of mine and I love helping our clients hone in

on their values and how to express that through their structures, their investments, their philanthropy, and you

know, whatever else that means. Yeah. I hope that our combo can can shed

some light on um how you know, not only you, but we at Bespoke define and source

truly impactful investments. Um, and maybe we can just start by talking about

the word impact. Um, something that I've

I've just heard the team talk about in the way that we talk about impact, which I thought was really cool was the first

time I heard it was um that regardless of I mean it's the it's the first part

of your white paper, which will be linked on this episode for those if they

want to read Alli's white paper, but um the first thing you say is everything we do has an impact and every dollar spent

or has an impact. So this idea of like impact investing a word only meaning

like positive impact like that's a qual right that's a qualifier but there's going to be impact regardless. So this

idea that um have as much control or intention behind your impact because it's going to happen one way or the

other. Yeah. I mean I think that's something that I've had to learn in this space.

Um, when I first became interested in sustainable finance or sustainable

investing, ESG, values-based impact, there are so many terms that you can call it. I think I was very naive in

thinking. So, one of my values is sustainability in the environment and

making sure our environment lasts through generations because um that's just something that I see as

tangible that we can actually help like change in our lifetime. And so when I

first started researching about impact investments, I was all in on like

renewable energy and, you know, making everything count in terms of corporate sustainability and green bonds and all

of these things. And I had to learn over the years that

there is no such thing as 100% good, 100% bad. life exists in the in between

in these gray areas and that's the same for impact investing. You can have a

solar company that is doing great things for renewable energy and then their

labor laws or you know where they're mining can be not great at all. So the

question really is, you mean like impacts on human rights or you're saying that they could just be

other human rights on child labor laws on um just the politics and what's going

on inside that country if they're exploiting the locals. Like there's so many things that go into impact and like

you mentioned there's good impact, there's bad impact, but everything we do, we say, we buy, we invest in has

some sort of impact. And I think what's really great about Bespoke is that we meet you where you are and we try to

give you as much information as possible and we try to be realistic and we just

have discussions with the client like is this something that's okay with you? Is this something that you want to do more

of? Is this not okay with you? Should we not even invest in equities because there's it's a lot harder to control the

impact that happens there. Should we be more direct? Should we, you know, be in private credit? should we actually give

money into the hands of the people doing the work? Like there's so many different ways to have impact with your money. So

I think that's something that um I would love for more people to know about when they step into the space. So why don't

we explore that a little bit? Um, can we explore

this notion that I mean every client comes with a diff different circumstances, different things that

they care about, different beliefs and um I think that there is a learning

curve, right, when it comes to like the you're talking about kind of like there's the reality, there's the good, there's the bad, there's the ideas, and then there's like the reality. It's kind

of a um a give and take, I think. But I think that there are a couple cases that

I've heard you talk about before that I think are interesting, right? Where somebody will come in and be like think that they don't care at all about

impact, but then it turns out that maybe they do. And then there's folks who come

in thinking that they only care about impact and literally don't need one single return and then they, you know,

find out that they do. So, can you kind of explore maybe a couple of those pockets of like those specific learning

curves? Yeah, I think um what I'd like to mention before I tackle those two

examples specifically is that I'd like people to imagine impact as a spectrum.

And there are different ways that you can try to manipulate the impact and try

to reflect it in your investments. And our investments are truly an

extension of us. And I think that your values, whether it be environmentalism or social justice or your religion or

your family, like it's very possible to reflect whatever values you have in your

world, in your life, in your investments. Of course, this is easier for clients who have much more capital

because with more capital, you get more options of what you can access in terms of investments. But going back to this

spectrum, you kind of have like limited impact where you're looking at the equity space and so that's like stocks

and truly if you buy a stock you're just moving money around the hands of

different traders. So the direct impact that it has on a company is very

minimal. You have shareholder activism where if enough investors come together,

you can actually go to shareholder meetings for companies and like vote on things that the company is asking their

shareholders to vote on, which I think is a little bit more direct impact with equities. Um, but it's it's hard to have

that direct impact in just the equity space. So there as you go down deep towards the

deeper impact you can have more direct impact and this is where it gets really interesting and you have a lot of the

different space where you can explore you have a question so you're me so you're measuring kind of along the spectrum is

like indirect to direct yeah I would say I would say that's

accurate um and you know as you go along you get

different ways to explore impact You have credit like municipal bonds. You

have private credit where you can invest directly into for example regenerative agriculture or different projects. Um

you have these kind of convertible notes that you can invest into different

companies or projects and then you have on the other side of that v venture

capital and private equity. So that's really in the private space. And with that, you need to be aware of

what you expect with the returns and how long your capital is locked up. And so this is something where we really need

to work with clients to make to help them understand, hey, if you're really interested in something like venture

capital and investing in maybe minority founders, that's great, but you won't

see that money for at least 10 years. So are you okay with that? and is that in line with what you told us your goals

are for your family situation, for your legacy situation, for like anything else

you want to do with your capital. So, it's really a full discussion on, you know, where are you at? Do you need

income? Do you need the capital short term? Um, and how long would you

like this to take? Because an example that you used was a client who came to us and said she wanted full impact and

you know that she didn't really care about returns. And that's great, but you can extend

your impact for years or decades or generations if you handle it well and

kind of help preserve and grow some of those assets and be selective about what

you give and where you invest and things like this. Um, so I think that is

another discussion as to sometimes full impact can last longer if you do care a

little bit about returns or growing the assets. So that's a conversation that we had that was really interesting.

Yeah, I never thought about it like that. Okay. And then

what about you know in the case where someone says that they don't care about impact.

I mean that's an interesting one right because we started this conversation saying whether you care about or not it's happening. So like what kind do you

want to well at least what kind do you want to have? Yeah. And someone could say like I literally don't care. And usually that

conversation is more like I don't care about impact because I want full growth.

like I want I want as much growth of the assets as possible and usually people

like are like okay so that takes away impact okay so let's get into this misconception a little bit right because

then there's there's there's an idea that if you um are interested in impact

investing or this world of impact investing means that you're not going to grow or see returns so can you pull that

apart a bit yeah I think it also has to do with this spectrum right the equity space is very

liquid and if you're investing in the right things, it's, you know, an easy

way to see your money grow and it's consistent like over decades.

So I think when people think impact is no returns are giving up returns,

they think impactful companies aren't as good as not as companies who

aren't they're not going to perform as well. Yeah. Which in and of itself is kind of

weird because the word sustainability means long lasting. So if you I always

thought that was weird that people thought sustainable companies were worse off were worse investments than not

sustainable companies because I'm like the very word sustainable means like they want to be around for the long term.

But when you talk about the equity space, like a lot about what we talk about is are these general purpose

technologies. And I don't think in that area you're necessarily giving up return

if you want to kind of gear your portfolio one way or the other. But like I said, the equity space is kind of more

shallow impact. So, if you're someone who wants to stay within the equity

space and you want to say like, I want slightly this way or I don't care about impact or I want to make sure I don't

invest in like tobacco companies or big oil or something like this. Um, I don't

think that there's much fluctuation in returns if you're doing things right. and we have a brilliant chief investment

officer, so he'll make sure you're getting the returns no matter how he skews your portfolio. Thanks, Rob. Um,

don't want to over promise anything though for you. But as you talk about deeper impact, there could be some quote

unquote loss of returns. But I want to be very careful saying that because in

like a normal portfolio that an average advisor would recommend for like I don't

know a 50-year-old guy likely there would be some fixed income in that. So

bonds and you can very well invest in bonds that have more impact than just

your you know regular bonds that have the same interest rate the same rate of

return. So, it's it's kind of a tricky conversation and one that we really have

to understand the goals and where the client's at in their journey and and if

they mean no impact. Is that just because you want to maximize returns and that means maybe in your investments

you're not going to like skew it any which way, but maybe with your philanthropy you do because that's also

a topic of conversation we have with clients. So the the coming to us saying no impact, no values for me doesn't make

sense because we all have them whether we like it or not. And when you talk about your estate and your legacy,

very often we find that even if at the beginning of the conversation it's like I don't want values reflected or impact

considered. Towards the middle or the end of the conversation, we're kind of talking about values and impact anyway.

So, so talk to me about I think what we're what we're starting to talk about is

wealth stewardship and um I've been enjoying talking to the greater team

about how you know the different pieces that go into this larger umbrella of wealth stewardship and there's

philanthropy and there's impact investing and then there's innovation which is part of that and all of these are kind of all of these are related

which is really exciting about the work at Bespoke because none of them are kind of happening in a silo. It's like they

can work together which is something that is super unique. So

yeah, can you talk to me a bit a bit about wealth stewardship and maybe get into more of kind of the purpose and

values um side of things and and I'm throwing

another kind of piece into this which we can talk about separately or maybe we can talk I think it could be nice to

talk about within this context. I'll leave that up to you. that is just this great wealth transfer that's happening and how you know this $80 trillion of

wealth that's transferring into the hands of young people and women millennials gen Z gen like just and and

I think there's a there's a different there's a different way of being in the world among with these this these

generations as opposed to kind of the traditional wealth holders and the wealth builders. So maybe that's part of

the conversation. I don't know. I'll kind of let you choose how you want to peel that onion. Yeah. So, the

idea of being a steward of your wealth, I first heard from a client and I had

never thought about it like that. I have I ag I I 100% related with it

immediately because I think the idea of impact or values-based investing

kind of signifies that you want to be a steward of your wealth that you want to

use it for not the greater good but you want to control

and be meaningful with where you invest or this can also be where you buy your

clothes or your groceries. Like you can be a steward of your wealth in many different ways.

But when it comes to kind of especially a family with a lot of wealth,

the idea that they want to be a steward of that wealth is so fascinating and

important. And I'm so amazed with these clients because I'm you have all of this

wealth that you know could do really great things and really big things. And I think what we hear often is that these

people who have this big wealth are kind of wealth hoarders or you know they can

never get enough. And I find that our clients are kind of the opposite of wealth hoarders, at least the ones that

I know. And I think being a steward of wealth is the opposite idea of like

being a hoarder of wealth. And so it's just this idea of being so intentional

and meaningful of where you donate, like where your philanthropy dollars go. Your

philanthropy to our clients is not just tax write offs. They are so intentional

and thoughtful about where they want that money to go. And I I speak day like weekly with um Donor Advised Funds which

we work with a lot with clients who are working with many many different donors

and then they help facilitate grants to uh philanthropic organizations and they've told me like many times that a

lot of donors will just donate their money and leave it in this fund or in this short-term pool of investments for

years and not not donate to anything and not use it. And so they have this limit, this minimum amount that you have to

have used or donated in a year to keep things running because they are that's what they're meant to do. They're

supposed to give money to organizations and like donate to um philanthropic organizations. And our clients are the

opposite. I mean they put money in there for a reason. They already have a thought on like what the strategy will

be or who it's going to go to or what the goal is of that money. and then we

donate and the Donor Advised Funds that we work with are always so impressed with how thoughtful our clients are with

that those funds. So I think that's a true steward of wealth of just like knowing and being so intentional with

every single bit of your wealth.

Can you give an example of I don't know I'm listening to you talk about how

um you're speaking about clients who are super intentional about what they want to do with their donation their donated

their donations for example. Um, but we also just talked about how like at times

coming to that place of of of what your purpose is or what your values are or how you want your money to reflect um

reflect those values is a journey. So, um, do you want to talk about that

process a little bit? I think it's it's a process and that's why we don't work with clients on like a

one-off basis. We're not like, "Okay, here are your structures. is good luck with everything. Um, and we don't, you

know, contact them once a year and give them an investment portfolio statement and say things are fine. Like no need to

ask any questions here, you know, like we are the opposite. We like to be on that journey and we like to help clients

arrive at destinations that maybe they didn't even know they they wanted to go there, but like it was

underneath their goals. It just wasn't very well articulated. Um, and so that looks

like sitting down talking about what wealth means to them, you know, whether or not they have kids or a family or a

legacy that they want to leave. And something that's been coming up in conversation a lot, at least for

prospects that I've tal been talking to, is if you don't have if you have kids or if you don't have kids, you can't take

money with you when you die. So what do you want it to do? like why why is it

important that you accumulate all this wealth during this lifetime? I think it's a question that not a lot of people think about um at least not a lot of

young people or people that I've spoken with. It's such an interesting point

because like I was talking to this man who doesn't have kids and who has accumulated a bit of wealth in his life

and he's like I just want to make sure that when I pass away like my money goes

somewhere to causes that I believed in and I don't want it just to go to like randomly to a government or like

randomly to a philanthropic organization that won't really achieve anything and

it's very intransparent where the money is going. So I think that's a really interesting question and way to frame

our conversations and just even if you do have kids like you can't take it with you. So discussing with your kids like

making sure that the values of the family are seen and passed through generations instead of just having these

kids who don't have any awareness of the work or the hard work or the values or

you know what all of this meant through generations. So I think that's a

really important part of our work and educating and bringing the next generation into conversations like that.

I think that's a really important aspect of what we do. Yeah. this idea of transferring meaning and you pointed something out that has

been coming up in my my other conversations because I don't know I've been think

just thinking to myself like a lot of times when we talk about what we do we talk about in the context of families

but um there are going to be more and more wealthy people and people receiving wealth making wealth building wealth

that are not family oriented I don't mean that they don't may care

about their family and and you know maybe they have siblings but that they don't want to maybe have children of their own or create their own family

unit. And so, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a conversation there about the meaning behind that wealth and yeah,

what it's going to do beyond when we're gone, which is something not a lot of people want to talk about. And

even I, it's funny. Yeah. It's weird to think about, right? But I think that's being a steward, a true

steward of wealth is like that's amazing how much you've accomplished in this lifetime and you will accomplish what

what does it mean? like put it into context of the like in the grand scheme of things, what goal do you really want

to where do you want to help push the needle? And that's interesting because we had one client who is very impact

oriented and wanted to make an impact in a lot of different areas. And the work that we did was we're like, you have a

lot of power to move the needle, but it would probably be best used if it all

went towards like one call. I was going to ask you, do you think that from your experience like Yeah. Yeah. I was going

to ask, sorry I totally cut you off. you probably would have already answered it. But like this idea of is it do you find

that it's more impactful to um like sprinkle into if somebody cares about a

lot of things or to get super laser focused and and I think it's a good it's again it's a

conversation but I think it's good if you have the conversation first being aware of your values or being aware of

just what matters to you and two you know if you want to talk about making a

difference and moving the needle whatever That means in whatever area you want to see, there is some

something to say about going deep rather than going shallow and like putting more into one bucket instead of spreading it

out all over a lot of buckets. That doesn't mean though it can be a very like broad

value or topic that you're interested in. I don't think that we need to get like too specific, but I do think like

furthering a cause. And I just want to mention here that I'm a big believer that everything is intersectional. Like

I think intersectional feminism, like blending feminism with environmentalism, because it all connects and we're all

connected. I'm a big believer in that. So I don't necessarily think if you pick one cause that it won't help advance

your other causes or if you if you don't want to pick one and you want to do like

two that it won't then have a big impact anyway. because I do I personally

believe all of this is very connected and the the UN created these 17

help stop the ocean from rising and the temperatures from rising. They want to help racial justice. They want to help

women's rights. They want to help like all of these things. And they're all interconnected. Like if you help one,

sometimes you're helping more. educating women is actually a great way to help stop climate change and you're like, you

know, so that's I like that. Oh, wow. Interesting. I never thought about that, but I guess I'm not

surprised to hear it because um again, as I've been on this journey and speaking with everybody and exploring

what we do more and more, it's like we are so this and it's what I love about this company is like we are so

multi-disciplinary. It's just cool to see like when I talk to different members on this team how

how common themes come up and like are personal to each person. So that's actually really exciting for me.

Um okay so I want to talk to you, there's a couple more things I want to talk to you about.

I want to talk about the great wealth transfer we have for Yeah. Let's talk about that. I also so yeah go

ahead. Okay. It's one of my favorite topics. I've been talking about it since I I

literally remember seeing a headline in Forbes when I was sitting at my desk the first or second year after I moved to

Switzerland and I was working for a wealth management company and I would I would read like a lot of articles

because I was just in this like I'm going to learn everything as much as and as fast as possible. So I would be at my desk like reading Bloomberg and Forbes

and Fast Company and like everything I could get my hands on. And I vividly remember reading an article about the

great wealth transfer and I was like that's interesting. And it was at the same point that I started kind of seeing

these sustainable investments and ESG things around Bloomberg and that's when

I started kind of dipping my toe in the water. And shocker, they all connect

because the so what's happening is the baby boomer generation, the biggest generation who has accumulated a bunch

of wealth, they are in a phase where they're passing away. And so the wealth is going

from the hands of baby boomer men to baby boomer women. And more women are

are um receiving the wealth because women live longer. Um, so it's just

happens to be that's the way that it flows. And then Gen X is receiving this

money, then millennials, and then later on Gen Z will receive it. And there have been many statistics that say when the

money is passed on from the baby boomers, either to Gen X or millennials, they will immediately fire their financial advisor. They're like,

"Yeah, I don't relate with you. I don't know really what you're doing." Yeah. And like the experience of the

world is just so different. And like expectations. Yeah. I we used to be very limited in what we

could learn about and know and the information that we were able to access

was you had to go to a library or you had to ask a professional or you had to like do like commit to it if you wanted

to know about it. It was much harder to get information. Yes. Now it's super easy. And I think

that Wall Street kind of grew in a time where they thrived on being the this black box of information where they were

just like, "Oh, no, you don't need to understand anything about what happens here." Like, "Don't worry. We've got

your finances in check. We'll just like give you a little ring once a year, show you a financial statement, you'll be

good." Like, okay. So now that we all have the internet at

the touch of our fingertips on our phone in on the computer like literally everywhere,

everyone is looking things up and asking smarter questions and is able to kind of

uh see more transparently what the world has to offer. And when they come with

questions, especially about like sustainability or impact or like, you know, even when they come to

conversations with like old Wall Street financial advisors and you come with,

you know, maybe your brother and they only speak to the man in the room and and don't speak to the woman, whether

it's the mother or the sister or whatnot. And and I still hear stories about this is still happening, which is

crazy to think. Yes, I hear stories all the time where like people will go into a room and it will be a mother and a son

and the financial adviser will speak to the son and not the mother and it's just like wild. Um, so and then people

are asking about, you know, um, investing outside of the US or or maybe

they're moving outside of the US or they have an international family or they want more asset protection. And there's

all these layers of of what how we work and how we optimize and what is possible

now with wealth. And I don't think these older financial advisers their go-to

answer is just like we wouldn't recommend. And then people are like looking up on

the internet and they're like, "Wait, but this seems to be the smart thing for me. I can do impact investing and

have a return or I can do this. This is possible." And I think it's a beautiful thing to see. So I think a real shakeup is happening in the

financial space right now. Um which I think is great. Yeah. I think you're talking about more

there's just more of an awareness um and

education that's happening for lay people or people who historically just

wouldn't even have any level of access to um these topics. There's also an

interesting thing that an interesting point about this which is that and we've talked about this before but it's coming

to mind and it's that um how exclusive the language is and that that can also

make it impossible because even if you were were in a position where you were able to have a conversation like you

just simply it's simply another language. Um, and I love how here I

have been able to be like, wait, okay, what I can you like say this in a way and then it's like, oh, wait, I actually do understand this makes a lot of sense

when you just say it in a different way. Yeah. I mean, what you just brought up is also a really good point and

something that I love to talk about and I that's why I'm sure we've talked about it before, but I think that there's a

lot of lack of education and transparency in the financial industry. So, and when people, especially like

women, women are known not to invest as much as men, it's because men, I don't know, the industry was built by men for

men. There's maybe women, we also like to know things like we like to have

things really well known and well researched before we start doing something. And especially for something like investing when you're let when you

feel like you're letting go of your money can be a little scary, especially if the space is confusing. But there's a

lot of confusing words like risk appetite. If somebody came to me and was like, "What's your risk appetite for

your money?" I'd be like, "Not a lot." But then if you say, "You don't want risky assets." Sometimes that excludes

you from something as basic as equities or like they they invest in like more conservative equities or or bonds and

and things. And if you're a young woman, like you can afford to take on that risk. So I like to say I like to explain

what risk means in the industry. And also it so depends on your age and your

lifestyle and what you're trying to accomplish and are you in like a period of growth or asset protection or you

know it's so dependent but nobody explains these things. So everybody so people are going to tell women and and

writing articles saying women are less risk less or more risk averse when it comes to investing. I'm like maybe if

you if you could explain it better then you would understand that we're actually not more risk averse.

Okay. So, is there anything else on this wealth transfer that you want to hit?

I just want to I think it's something that's really interesting is that when people think of the wealth transfer, at least I used to think of it as just like

a ton of money, like dollars changing hands. And that's not actually what's happening. The wealth is coming in the

form of investments, like investment portfolios. It's coming in the form of companies. It's coming in the form of

real estate. It's coming in the form of small LLC's, medium-sized companies, big corporations. Like when you think about

the wealth transfer, it's not only, you know, like dollars changing hands. It's

actually like assets changing hands. And I think that's interesting also because as

companies change hands either, you know, they don't last and the next generation

doesn't. We have a record amount of small and medium size businesses either for sale right now or are just being

forgotten about because it's not something that the family either discussed or that anybody wants to take on. But you also get like new leadership

and new ideas and this new generation has a new way of leading and communicating and building. So I think

that piece of it is very interesting as well because it's not only how wealth is being managed but also how companies are being managed.

Whoa, you just blew my mind. Haven't thought about that. You know, okay, somebody can inherit a portfolio,

somebody can inherit this. And then there's also folks who you know

have spent their life like curating and building this and it's a reflection of their you know there's more of an attachment more of a it's more of a

reflection of their identity or tied up in that way. So I guess those are those are two separate examples but can you

talk to me a bit about like the flexibility? I guess my I have several questions like

one question would be in the case of um when someone inherits

the portfolio like are there options there to ch to change things that's

number one and then number two when someone is is coming with a portfolio

that you know they put their blood sweat and tears into and they love but maybe

know that there needs to be a change like can you talk to me about that process because I think that can be a

tough one. Yeah, I think both are good questions. For someone inheriting a

portfolio, yes, you can change it. Um, of course, you have to think about tax implications and capital gains and

things like that. But that's something that our team is really thoughtful about. And it's usually not the case where you see a portfolio and then you

sell everything one day to the next and then like invest everything. It's like you look for opportunities to sell or

opportunities to buy and like ease into it, but absolutely you do not have to stay with the portfolio that you

inherited. And there's always ways to change it. And I think that bleeds into your next question where it's really

interesting because the season of life where you are, it doesn't last forever.

And so if you were in a season of life where you were, you know, head to the ground investing everything in one asset

class or like your business or whatever and then that's changed or your your goals start your priorities start to

shift, it can be important for your portfolio and your investments to come

with you in that shift. And it's something I get a lot of push back on this when I talk about it on social

media because I think a lot of the financial education being talked about online is like for the first time

investor and for the basic investor and it's very important to know that that's not the right tips or you know way to go

about things for everybody. So like you know I hear a lot about maybe we you

know maybe you should just invest in an ETF for the rest of your life and or a mutual fund and like that's that. But as

you especially like these people who took really big risk in investing everything let's say in in Bitcoin and

then they have this issue later on where they have all of their assets in invested in an asset class that doesn't

provide any income. So, you know, we have to solve for paying bills or solve for buying real estate or solve for

sending kids to college. Like, it's very real that seasons of life change. So, um

in terms of like what how to go about seeing what you need to change or how to talk about a client with a client, it's

very important that it's just like a two-way conversation that you're listening to the client on their needs.

if they're telling you, it's something that I've been grappling with like, you know, I have a lot of bills, but my

asset is great. It's growing, but I and I don't want to sell, but I don't know kind of how to match my lifestyle with

this. Then it's a deeper conversation of like, you know, what what are your

goals? Are your investments matched and aligned with that? And where do you want to be in 10 years? And how are we

going to gradually get you there so that we can be realistic? We can listen to your wants and needs, but you can also

meet us where or not meet us, but meet yourself where you need to be. And maybe you do need to sell off some of that

asset class. Maybe you do need to like find a more income generating way to

invest your money. So it's always a conversation. It is hard especially for someone who like put their blood, sweat, and tears into

building up to that point. But it's just about education and communication and meeting someone where they are.

Yeah. And I think also like the pace, right? Like it's not necessarily a flip

of a switch. It can be a process, it's a process. I was going to ask you about

just I know that you're personally passionate about connecting to wealth owners no matter the size of wealth and

just like educating people about the financial industry, educate people about investing. Um, I know that's something

that you're personally passionate about. So, I wanted to um give you some time to talk about that.

And I I think it also fits into what I was going to ask you, which was about how there are so like there are levels

to wealth, right? So, can you kind of talk through like the the different

support for different levels of wealth? And then also just generally speaking, like I know that you also make videos

because you just again are passionate about like people just having access to this information. So, it's also like

about knowing like what information is for you. And so, um I imagine that there are people who could be listening to this podcast who might have $5 million

and some might have $500 million. Um so, what would you say to kind of both of

those audiences? I think when you're first starting your

investment journey, so let's talk about under 1 million, it's really important that you get your toes in the water. you

you dip your toes and you start somewhere. It's like starting any new thing. And especially I've already

mentioned with money that you've earned. Like it feels like you're giving it away. And

I know even me Ali, I'm like I can't I've like I've kind I've dipped my toes. I've started and then I stop and then I

pull it back and then I get Yeah. So it's a muscle. It's muscle memory. And so like it's so important and I know new

investors like to invest money and then they like to just stare at their phone and like panic when it goes red and then

like jump for joy when it goes green. And I know that it feels like this, but you gotta take the emotions out of

investing. I'm going to say something right now. Like statistics show that the

average investor like yourself are no worse off than some of the best hedge

fund managers and traders in Wall Street. Like you you end up with the same amount of returns if not like the

one who knows less ends up with more returns because what what ends up happening is that consistency wins over

anything. And if you're consistent and not emotional about it, historically,

I'm I'm not saying in the future it's always going to be like this, but historically that has been the best

strategy. And they also statistics have also shown that women are actually known

to be better investors than men because we are actually less emotional with something. Like once a woman understands

that it needs to be consistent like monthly investing 10% of their income in

in an ETF or a mutual fund and they just do this for years and years and years and years and they don't look at it and

even when the market's plummeting like they don't freak out. They just stay steady. It sh the statistics show that

women are actually like the less emotional investors. Interesting.

I love that. I'm curious like how the approach is different from like 50 million to 500 million and like what

impact can look like or means for both of those parties. I think for someone with 50 million versus 500 million, 50

million is a significant amount of wealth. Um the complexity isn't as high

as someone with 500 million. And I think that's something that we've had to also help clients realize is that um

fortunately or unfortunately a lot of wealth comes with a little bit

more complexity. And that just is in terms of protecting it, keeping yourself private and not a target in terms of

planning for legacy and your kids and your whole family. In terms of

philanthropy, like philanthropy for 50 million and 500 million is going to look vastly different. Probably someone with

500 million could afford to give away and probably would be fine with giving away a whole lot more than some someone

with 50 million. And then just like the structures in and of themselves, there's

so much you can do when it comes to wealth strategy and planning and optimizing. And I think with someone

with 500 million, there is much more that needs to or could be done versus

someone with 50 million which might need a bit of a more simple structure. Yeah. Can you talk about the transparency part

a little bit? That's something that we didn't get to, but I know that we've talked about before, which is that there

is not an organization that like we're not like pushing like right like the ideas. I think a lot of

we don't have commission or or we're not aligned or like Yeah. Like that's something I think

That's something I think is cool to highlight because I think that's pretty unique. Yeah. I mean, I think that is an

important topic that a lot of clients ask me about that. A lot of people don't even know what a fiduciary is. And

Bespoke is a fiduciary. Meaning, so what's a Yeah. Meaning if you work with one of the big

banks, and I won't name names because I'm nice. Um,

the big banks have incentive to keep everything within their doors. So, you

want a fund, great, we've got a fund. You want a private venture, you want private equity, we've got you. You want

bonds, you want this, you want this. Don't worry, it's all inhouse. Then the commission goes like this. Like

everything in house. You're like, you're making money, you're making money, you're making money. The client, we don't know where the fees are going.

like it's pretty not transparent in that bank on Wall Street. Um so a fiduciary

acts in the best interest of the client and only the client. And so if there's something that the client is not happy

with like fee structure or whatever it is, the fiduciary's

responsibility is to always have the best interest of the client in mind. We

do not take commission or um any money,

anything from banks, from partners, from VC funds, from ETFs. Like anything we do

is only in the best interest of the client and Bespoke will never be remunerated or like paid for for that.

So, I think that's really cool. I know. I was going to say that's definitely something to be proud of. Okay, I think that we

peeled the layers of this onion, Ali. Um, great questions, Claire. Thank you so much for having me.